Well Done to the German Bishops who had the courage this week to publicly declare the obvious truth- 
that Israel's brutal racist militaristic actions and policies were deliberately converting Palestine into a series of walled-off over-crowded poverty stricken Ghettos that were reminiscent of the Jewish ghettos of Nazi-occupied Europe.It is a courage that Western and other political world leaders lack.
The bishops were on a visit to Israel and the Palestinian territories.
Bishop Hanke of Eichstatt was quoted in the Irish Times as stating that, "This morning we saw pictures of the Warsaw ghetto at
Yad Vashem (Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem) and this evening we are going to the Ramallah ghetto"Cardinal Meisner of Cologne said, in referring to the heavy Israeli military presence, their checkpoints and their 26ft security wall being built through Arab lands, that it was "something done to animals not people".
Bishop Mixa of Augsburg pointed out that Israeli policies towards Palestinians bordered on racism.
It is despicable that the world's nations allow Israel to continue with this barbarism.
Today, film evidence was broadcast on BBC television showing that Israeli troops continue to use children and young people as human shields as they rampage through Palestinian homes and streets.
See my previous article on Israeli aggression entitled 'Time for the Israeli Myth to be Shattered'
38 comments:
The comment from 'Mr Anonymous'is quite interesting.
In my postings on Israel, I do not in any way deny the Holocaust. Likewise neither do the German Bishops. In fact quite the opposite. The killing of the European Jews was oneof the greatest crimes of humanity.
But the Ghettos were set up (or expanded) by the Nazis before they establised the 'Death Camps'. They were used initially as dumping grounds for the Jews that were moved out of their homes that were subsequently taken over in many cases by the Nazi military or by German colonists. This is the same situation that the Israel's are doing in Palestine. Move the Palestinians out of large areas of their homeland in order to make way for Israeli military fortifications or colonies for Jewish settlers
Hi Brendan,
I need to sit with you to learn more I wasnt even aware!
Ina
"Move the Palestinians out of large areas of their homeland"
Israel moving palestians ? When and where did Israel recently moved palestinians en masse out of their homse ?
Mr. Anonymous (I dislike replying to people that don't have the courage of their convictions to publish their names- but will make an exception here) states "...When and where did Israel recently moved palestinians en masse out of their homes..."
In the last few years, Arab lands have been stolen by the Israelis to build their gigantic 'security' wall (notice it is constructed on Arab and not on Israeli lands!) & to expand Jewish settlements in places such as East Jerusalem.
From the Sept 1977 onwards Ariel Sharon, serving first as Government Minsiter for Agriculture, promoted the illegal (under international law) colonial Jewish settlements of the West Bank and publicly called on Jews from across the world to move to Israel.
Sharon set out to implement a strategic plan to settle 1 million Jews in the West Bank & Gaza Strip within 20 years. He stated "I believe that if we establish these settlements, we will feel sufficiently secure to accept risks for the sake of peace."
Under successive Likud governments, Palestinians were subjected to harsh occupation policies designed to encourage emigration.
Likud's position was founded on the ideological claim of the "whole Land of Israel" for the "Jewish people".
But, as I stated in a previous article on this issue, the Zionists always believed in expanding Jewish lands at the expense of Palestinian Arabs.
Examples from an article in the excellent ‘Mid-East Web’:
1. Eli’ezer Kaplan, Head of the Jewish Agency Finance and Administrative Department, said:
” The question here is one of organised transfer of a number of Arabs from a territory which will be the Hebrew state, to another place in the Arab state…” - (Convention of Ihud Po’alei Zion in August 1937. ‘Al Darchei Mediniyutenu, op.cit, pp.82-83.)
2. Berl Katznelson, a leader of the Mapai party wrote:
“The matter of population transfer has provoked a debate among us: Is it permitted or forbidden? My conscience is absolutely clear in this respect. A remote neighbour is better than a close enemy… I have long been of the opinion that this is the best of all solutions…. I have always believed and still believe that they were destined to be transferred to Syria or Iraq.” - (At the World Convention of Ihud Po’alei Tzion, August 1937. Al Darchei Mediniyutenu: Mo’atzah ‘Olamit Shel Ihud Po’ali Tzion (c.s.)-Din Vehesbon Maleh, 21 July-7 August [1938]
3. “What is a compulsory transfer? Compulsory transfer does not mean individual transfer. It means that once we resolved to transfer there should be a political body able to force this or that Arab who would not want to move out…we must wage a war for maximum territory….” - (Protocol of the Jewish Agency Executive meeting of 12 June 1938, vol.28, no.53, Central Zionist Archives, Jerusalem).
4. Joseph Weitz, a former director of settlement in the Jewish Agency, wrote in his diary: “Amongst ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples in this country. No ‘development’ will bring us closer to our aim to be an independent people in this small country…. There is no room for compromise on this point….land purchasing….will not bring about the state;.. Not a single village or a single tribe must be left. And the transfer must be done through their absorption in Iraq and Syria and even in Transjordan. For that goal, money will be found - even a lot of money. And only then will the country be able to absorb millions of Jews…. There is no other solution.” - (Weitz Diary, entry dated 20 December 1940, pp.1090-91, Central Zionist Archives, Jerusalem.)
5. David You mention historian Benny Morris. In his book in ‘The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee problem, 1947-1949’ he confirms that Weitz was active in encouraging the Zionist leadership to take advantage of the flight of the Palestinian In 1948, he wrote:
“I made a summary of a list of the Arab villages, which in my opinion must be cleared out in order to complete Jewish regions. I also made a summary of the places that have land disputes and must be settled by military means.” - (Weitz Diary, entry dated 18 April 1948, p. 2358, CZA)
6. David Ben Gurion, Jewish Leader and later Prime Minister gave this advice: “… we [the Haganah] adopt the system of aggressive defence; during the assault we must respond with a decisive blow: the destruction of the [Arab] place or the expulsion of the residents along with the seizure of the place.” - (Ben-Gurion’s advice on 19 December 1947. Cited in Simha Flapan, The Birth of Israel: Myths and Reality, p.90.
7. Chaim Weizmann, “With regard to the refugees, we are determined to be adamant while the war lasts. Once the return tide starts, it will be impossible to stem it, and it will prove our undoing. As for the future, we are equally determined … to explore all possibilities of getting rid, once and for all, of the huge Arab minority, which originally threaten us…(to Chaim Weizmann, president of provisional council of the state of Israel, 18 August 1948. Cited in Benny Morris, The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-49, pp.149-50.)
I hope that these Zionist statements enlighten 'Mr. Anonymous'
Mr. Anonymous contacted me again and states that I failed to answer his question on providing evidence of Israeli's removing Palestinians en masse from their homes.
So in my final(honest!) reply to an 'anonymous' writer, I hereby recommend him & everyone else to read the 'If Americans Knew' website, - set up my Americans incl journalists, former congressmen and ambassadors concerned at US foreign policy particularly its domination by Israeli interests- where this evidence is provided including that uncovered by courageous Israeli historians:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ref-qumsiyeh.html
As well as the above section, this site aslo has the following article:
"Israel Bars Rabin From Relating
’48 Eviction of Arabs
By David K. Shipler
Reprinted from the New York Times
October 23, 1979
JERUSALEM, Oct. 22 – A censorship board composed of five Cabinet members prohibited former Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin from including in his memoirs a first-person account of the expulsion of 50,000 Palestinian civilians from their homes near Tel Aviv during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.
In it, Mr. Rabin attributes the final decision on expulsion to David Ben-Gurion, one of Israel’s founders and its first Prime Minister, who died in 1973. Mr. Rabin says that some Israeli soldiers refused to participate in driving out the Arabs and that afterward, propaganda sessions were required to soothe the consciences of embittered troops.
The account does not appear in either the Hebrew edition of Mr. Rabin’s memoirs or in the American edition, which was published in the United States this month by Little, Brown & Company under the title “The Rabin Memoirs.”
I salute these brave Americans campaigning to tell the truth about Palestine!
Dear Mr Anonymous,
As I said already, I don't want to publish comments written by people that do not have the courage of their convictions to publish their names.
I hope though that you have started to familarise yourself with the content of the excellent 'If Americans Knew' website and the writings of the Israeli historians that it referrs to.
The 1948 Arabs (& their descendants) forced from their homes in present-day Israel should be allowed to return as enshrined in the UN Declaration of Human Rights which states
"Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.”
Permanent peace in the Middle East will only start to happen when Israel withdraws 'in toto' to the 1967 boundaries (UN Resolution 242) and allows the 1948 Palestinians the right of return.
Cheers!
great site and great posts brendan , bravo .
Anonymous should remember the millions of palestinians who are refugiees right now , displaced because of israel , and many hundreds have lost their homes in jerusalem because of the wall. he does not seem aware , reads one side only i guess .
Dear Speedie
You don't have to publish my posts, so far you have only published non-answers to my non posts.
I would'nt mind make myself known to you personally, but revealing my identity online would make me a target and I don't wish to join the growing list of people suffering anti-semitic attacks. the numbers are bad enough as it is.
Should you decide not to publish this post, I'll let you be. both of us have better things to do.
Dear Speedie
Now that my posts are published, perhaps we could have a meaningful discussion.
Fatima: the 20th century made refugess out of millions of people. my family included. Jews and arabs. Most refugees moved on - rebuilt their lives. German refugees in Germany, Greeks expelled from Turkey in Greece, Irish - all over the world.
America is home to millions of Irish "refugees". but they chose to move on, rather then try to return to a village that doesnt exist anymore and/or kill as many English as possible.
The palestinian remained in refugee camps - there are 22 arab countries, they were not allowed to become citizens - just to preserve this sad situation.
We can discuss the refugee problem ,but that would not answer my question "When and where did Israel recently moved palestinians en masse out of their homes ?"
The reason I insist on asking it is that it crucial to see that the point that German bishops (and speedie) made is not based on facts.
btw - ifonlyamericanskew.org version of history (i.e Israel having a highly trained Army of 90,000 in 1948, out of a population of 600,000. and this under british rule...) is not very reliable.
Thanks for your comment Fatima and the points expressed- which are the true facts on the ground in Palestine.
Obviously 'Mr Anonymous' or 'ShimSean' as he is now called, does not agree with my answers to his queries on the Palestinian refugees. He claims that the websites and references that I provide as evidence are 'partisan'. But if that is his opinion, then I will not be able to change it & won't bother henceforth.
Suffice to say, "There are none so blind as those that will not see". Regarding his comments defending his decision to use anonymity in his postings on the grounds that he fears 'anti-semitic' attacks, please note that there is no such attacks of any significance in today's Ireland. If he lives elsewhere, then I admit sadly that such attacks are on the increase in Europe & elsewhere. But tiny in comparision to the racist attacks on Muslims & black Africans in Europe, Russia, Australia etc; on Christians in Egypt, in some Middle Eastern countries & in Indonesia, on Kurds in Turkey etc.
Racism is wrong no matter who is the perpetrators.
I am only an ordinary person with no special gift or insight. But I can see clearly enough that what the Palestinians are suffering from at the hands of the Israeli government & their US backers is-as the German Catholic bishops alluded to- comparable to the Nazis actions towards Jews in the period up to early 1942.
Thankfully there are Jews in Israel and across the world who are prepared to stand up and demand the withdrawal of Israeli forces to the 1967 borders. There are also Israelis such as Mordechai Vanunu who, in spite of state harrassment, are prepared to expose the Israeli secret nuclear arsenal. The real threat to the goal of peace in the Middle East (the most dangerous area of the world) is Israel and the USA.
Shimsean says "...The palestinian remained in refugee camps - there are 22 arab countries, they were not allowed to become citizens - just to preserve this sad situation..."
Sad comment. For they have every right to return to their homes.They are 'Palestinians' as well as 'Arabs'.
Furthermore, I (and probably the bishops) would define the 1948 mass expulsions as something that the world should not ignore.
The recent stealing of Arab lands in order to build their illegal (under international law) wall has cut Arabs off from their farms, schools, places of worship etc thereby threatening their very existence to survive. Fair play to the German bishops for bringing Western attention to this modern crime with its echoes of 'bantustans' and 'ghettoes'.
Interesting too that Israel's backers -the USA- are now creating a new population of Arab Iraqi refugees numbering at the last estimate of 1.4millions.
Without US financial & military backing, Israel would not able to continue its occupations of Arab lands and its wars of aggressions. Unfortunately, I cannot see the US Zionist lobby losing its hold over the US regime in the foreseeable future.
I would ask people to read the American'If American Knew' website- brilliant!
Dear All
If you take www.ifamericansknew.org at face value - then I have a bridge to sell you. good location - in New york !
try wikipedia for a more balanced approach.
Antisemitic attacks : http://www.antisemitism.org.il/eng/search/?country=29&id_category=105®ion=
Fact: Jews are 4 times more likely to be attacked then Muslims in the U.K.
Why don't you try it for yourself - put on a kippa an walk thru any muslim area in Europe.
The Bishop's comments were condemed by their superior. At least someone in the church is thinking.
Last point - If israel is so beastly to the palestinians. How come that when Israel suggested to exchange land, the Israli-palestinian, who would in this case, join their broders in Palestine declined ?
Obviuosly Speeide - there is more to the situation then indemedia reports.
No mass deportations happened - except of course - of Jews out of Gaza.
I am open to persuasion, and have been persuaded before - but this would take facts, which so far you have not provided.
btw - can you tell me the name of the only country in the middle east, whose Christian population grew in the last 10 years ?
The person now known as Shimsean ignores, in his last posting the innumderable facts that I have quoted in my comments drawn from reputable sources (e.g. concerned American citizens, Israeli historians, German bishops). But so be it.
He then amazingly uses as his preferred reference an 'Israeli state website' that we are suppose to believe would provide unbias reports for instance of the level of attacks against Jews vis-a-vis attacks on Muslims in the UK! It is a website that sees "...Israel, as the Jewish State..."!!
Then he comes up with the comment, "...can you tell me the name of the only country in the middle east, whose Christian population grew in the last 10 years?..."
Such a lopsided question defies reasonable discussion. But he is of course referring to Israel- as if it somehow exists in a vacuum, cut off from all the damage that it inflicts on the Christian/Arab communities in neighbouring countries & in the occupied territories.
Under Israel military control, the Palestinian Arabs of all religions have suffered army attacks on their homes and places of worship, loss of their livelihoods, daily harrassment by Israeli checkpoints and army patrols etc. Understandably tens of thousands of Christians have left seeing no future in their homeland (which pleases the occupying army). Christian leaders have consistently condemned the brutal Israel policies and their racism/sectarianism.
Israel's most senior Roman Catholic leader, Michel Sabbah, the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, has said Bethlehem has become an "immense prison" since the erection of the West Bank barrier.
In a pre-Christmas pilgrimage to Bethlehem in Dec last, the main British Christian leaders condemned Israeli's security wall and military actions for strangling the life out of the town. These pilgrims included Archbishop Rowan Williams of Canterbury head of the Anglican communion; Cardinal Cormac-Murphy O'Connor of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales; Bishop Nathan Hovhannisian, of the British Armenian Church & the Rev David Coffey, Moderator of the Free Churches
I recently saw on British TV a film of their visit. It was frightening to see onscreen the loss of human dignity that Palestinians endure daily at the hands of the Israeli occupation forces. If they are lucky, it can take hours for ordinary residents to make what should be a journey measured in minutes to travel to Jerusalem.
Iraq
In American-occupied Iraq, it is estimated that circa 200,000 Christians have fled the country since the Western forces invaded. This community is one of the oldest Christian communities in the world being there since the first century. Now thanks to US imperial policy, they are almost extinct.
The right-wing Christian fundamentalists that back Bush & the Israelis in their wars of aggression care little for the Christian Arabs. They are preparing the ground for some crazy Armageddon & have lost touch with reality and compassion.
Sadly, the association of Christianity with American-controlled imperialism is leading to an alarming increase of Muslim fundamentalist attacks on Christian Arabs.
Dear Speedie
Thanks for agreeing with me that no mass deportations of arabs occured in Israel/Palestine recently.
antisemitic/anit mulim attacks - the web site I quoted displayed the anti semitic attacks in Ireland. As for the ratio - it was announced by the English police (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/17/nislam117.xml)
Maybe they are also controlled by Zionist lobby ?
I asked why didn't arab countries give Palestinian refugees citizinship, and you answered:
"For they have every right to return to their homes.They are 'Palestinians' as well as 'Arabs'."
So - if the recieve an Arab citizenship (i.e - Egyptian), they cease to be palestinians. so Iraqi refugees in Ireland will always remain "refugees", even if their grandchildren are born in Athenry ?
German Bishops - if their comments were so true and wise, how came their superior condemed them ?
you say "the USA- are now creating a new population of Arab Iraqi refugees numbering at the last estimate of 1.4millions."
so it's the Americans disguised as Shiites who killing Sunnis. then they rush back to their bases and disguise themselves as Sunnis ?
Thank you speedie for a post that actually tries to anser my questions, however feebly.
The German bishops think Israel's attitude doesn't allow Palestinians to live. surprisingly he doesn't mention the living conditions of fellow christians under Muslim rule - in Palestine and elsewhere. He chose to critise Israel because it is easy, and because he knew that doing the opposite could be devastating to Christians.
If Israel is so vile - how come Christains are doing better there then elsewhere in the middle east ?
btw - Is Israel really so vile ? surely other countries are wlot worse, yet you never seem to mention them.
"UN Law" - no such thing. there is international law, but no UN law. let's look into the follwoing scenario - a palestinian village was occupied by Israel in 1948, it's occupants becase refugees. the village was destroyed - there is now an israeli town standing where it used to be. Where would the refugees return to ?
Why don't the refugees get another Arab citizenship (as well as maintaining the palestinian one) - this would allow them to rebuild their lives.
Us/Iraq - If the U.S invaded Iraq to take it's oil, surely it would be better for them if that country was quiet. why would they start a civil war ?
Just found this blog - brilliant !
The Zionist state of Israel is a rogue state and must be dismantled, making place for a single state from the Jordan to the sea !
Sorry Readers for the delay in my comment below- very hectic work schedule at present!
Anyway, Mr 'Anonymous' aka 'Shimsean' says in his last posting:
1. ”…let's look into the following scenario - a palestinian village was occupied by Israel in 1948, it's occupants becase refugees. the village was destroyed - there is now an israeli town standing where it used to be. Where would the refugees return to?
Why don't the refugees get another Arab citizenship (as well as maintaining the palestinian one)…”
This is the key to Mr. Anonymous' core values.
He believes in the war of the aggressor, that ‘might is right’, that colonial violence should win out, that the ‘end justifies the means’ etc. That was/is the language of Nazism, fascism, imperialism, apartheid and colonialism.
Thankfully there are many of us across the world today and in previous generations that believe fundamentally in justice for all, in liberty, in national self-determination, in fighting against military and colonial occupation. The struggle of Palestine is similar to the struggle of other repressed indigenous peoples since time immemorial such as the people of my own country Ireland who suffered 800 years of British armed state terror and the loss of our best lands to colonial settlers. We refused to give up. Hopefully the Palestinians will keep the flame of local resistance alive and ultimately win the right to decide their own destiny. Even if the lands thwy own have been changed, their homes destroyed, colonial settlements built, - it makes no difference- the refugees have the right of return under international law,
2. Mr. Anonymous says “…If Israel is so vile - how come Christains are doing better there then elsewhere in the middle east ?…”
Answer: Well, if Mr. Anon read my last few postings 'in toto', he would get his answer (please read these). The Christians in Israel (as with the German & British Christians leaders that visited the 'Holy Land' over the last few months) have expressed solidarity with the Christians and other Palestinians in the West Bank who suffer so much daily at the hands of the Israeli colonial settlers and army.
3. Mr. Anon says “…he doesn't mention the living conditions of fellow christians under Muslim rule - in Palestine and elsewhere...”
Answer: Actually, I did in my last email
Look at my comments about Christian communities in today’s US-controlled Iraq. In a country that is like a scene out of Dante’s ‘Inferno’, Christians are suffering disproportionately; with a community that has existed since the time of Christ and a people that can trace their origins to the Assyrians of 3-4,000 years ago being almost wiped off the lands of ancient Mesopotamia since 2003.
4. Mr. Anon says “…surely other countries are wlot worse, yet you never seem to mention them…”
Answer: Because Israel & its ally – the USA – are the greatest threat to World Peace in our time. Israel continually presents itself as the bulwark of the Western values against a 'barbarous East' -it is nothing of the sort, As UN resolutions show, it has done so much to destroy the principles of liberty, equality and human rights.
Remember too that this in article specifically on Palestine. However, I have also written articles on US Imperialism in Latin America and support of dictatorships; on Russian imperialism in Chechnya & Georgia; on Chinese imperialism in Tibet.
5. Mr. Anon says “…UN Law- no such thing...”
Answer: Actually there is. UN Laws can and do become international law. This was the case with many UN conventions that took place in Geneva and agreements signed there have become part of international and national laws. These include the Convention on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone, the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (1951) and Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees (1967).
Also under Article 25 of the Charter, UN member states are bound to carry out "decisions of the Security Council in accordance with the present Charter".
As is pointed out in the excellent American ‘If Americans Knew’ website, Israel military actions has resulted in at least 65 UN Resolutions. The website goes on to state “Aside from the core issues—refugees, Jerusalem, borders—the major themes reflected in the U.N. resolutions against Israel over the years are its unlawful attacks on its neighbors; its violations of the human rights of the Palestinians, including deportations, demolitions of homes and other collective punishments; its confiscation of Palestinian land; its establishment of illegal settlements; and its refusal to abide by the U.N. Charter and the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.”
6. ‘Jews Against the Occupation’
I would recommend readers to also read the brilliant progressive Jewish website
‘Jews Against the Occupation’
http://www.jatonyc.org/UNresolutions.html
It is often forgotten in the terrible wars of aggression of the Israeli state and the actions of the right-wing Jewish racist settler movements that there are also many Jews who campaign against the occupation of the Palestinian territories. I salute these courageous humanitarian Jews and those brave Christian Israelis such as Mordechai Vanunu.
7. Mr. Anon says “…Us/Iraq - If the U.S invaded Iraq to take it's oil, surely it would be better for them if that country was quiet. why would they start a civil war…”
Answer: Though the Bush administration always intended to operate a classic Imperialist ‘divide and rule’ policy in order to maintain ultimate control, they in their innate arrogance and belief in their own military superiority to crush all revolt never expected the anti-occupation to be so strong and for the situation to degenerate so much.
Dear Speadie
Congratulations on becoming a German, and bishop no less !
(3. Mr. Anon says “…he doesn't mention the living conditions of fellow christians under Muslim rule - in Palestine and elsewhere...”
Answer: Actually, I did in my last email
I was referring to the Bishop, and not your neutral self.
point 1 - Are you suggesting to destroy Israeli towns and villages to make room for palestinian "refugees" ? you did not propose any other solution.
All you (repeatedly) say is that they have the right to return (if, and only if, they return peacefully, btw) - but unless Israeli towns are destroyed, they have nowhere to go back to. And, of course, they have to stay in refugess camps, to ensure that this right persists.
Your blog seems to follow in UN steps - anti Israeli posts are published quickly (i.e Bin Bandook's), but my posts are left in internet limbo for days...
In answer to Mr. Anonymous aka Shimsean when he says:
"...Are you suggesting to destroy Israeli towns and villages to make room for palestinian "refugees" ? you did not propose any other solution....unless Israeli towns are destroyed, they have nowhere to go back to..."
Answer- Who says anything about destroying the towns/villages?
The vindictiveness of Israeli aggression can be seen in their recent Gaza withdrawal & their previous withdrawals from the West Bank after their armed incursions- they rip up roads, bulldoze houses, destroy infrastructure etc. Pure vandalism.
Whether the colonial towns or villages in occuped Palestine should be levelled to the ground should be a decision agreed upon with the Palestinians. That is the humane thing to do.
Anon also says "...All you (repeatedly) say is that they (Palestinians) have the right to return...".
Answer- I make no apology for that. It is the essential key to peace in Palestine & in the Middle East.
Cheers!
Mr. Anonymous aka Shimsean has got his facts wrong again.
1. He says that "...Execpt Iran no other arab country insists on refugee return to Israel..."
First of all Iran is not an Arab country.
Secondly as late as last month, the gathering of Arab nations meeting in Saudi Arabia under the banner of the 'Arab League', collectively adopted a resolution on Palestine.
The resolution, in its key paragraph, “resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the governments or authorities responsible.”
2. Mr Anon also states "...Israel actually left a few buildings intact when Jews were deported from Gaza - Syngogues and state of the art greenhouses. The palestinians torched the syngogues..."
Well nothing could be more provocative to an occupied people than have the religious places of worship of their occupiers among the few buildings left standing after their withdrawal!
No wonder they were torched!!
3. Finally, he states that "...The U.S has the world strongest army (which ensures Irish freedom..." That is a new one to the people of Ireland. The only state in modern times that occupied Ireland is an ally of the USA- Britain!
Dear Brendan aka Spedie
I got it wrong - Iran is not an Arab state, but a muslim one.
In Al jazeera site the Saudi plan calls for ""just solution" for Palestinian refugees"
Al Jazeera
where did you quote from ?
Thank you also for explaining why Palesitians burned syngogues. If Israelis were to follow that logic - what would have happened to Al Aqsa mosque ? what would happen to Israel if palestinian refugess were allowed to return en-masse.
Do you really believe that without the U.S Ireland would not be occupied/dominated by Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia ?
you still did not answer my question about why is israel so dangerous to world peace. this seems to be a repeating pattern in your posts - make claims , then fail to prove them. must be something in Galway water...
Brendan, I wonder why no one attacked me on my blog when i made some of the same points you did? is it because there are fewer hatemongers there? or are the people more, er, literate?
Something to think about.
Bill
To enlighten the person who hides behind the anonymity of 'Shimsean':-
The Arab League reiterated its support of its Beirut Declaration of 2002 which can be found on many websites including BBC at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6501573.stm This policy affirmation states that it wants a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194 UN Resolution 194 (which I have quoted in my last posting),
But of course Mr. Anonymous could not agree to this solution as his core values are covered in his comment "...Why don't the refugees get another Arab citizenship (as well as maintaining the palestinian one)…” As I stated previously this statement sadly shows that Mr. Anon "... believes in the war of the aggressor, that ‘might is right’, that colonial violence should win out, that the ‘end justifies the means’ etc. That was/is the language of Nazism, fascism, imperialism, apartheid and colonialism. ..."
Mr Anon says in his last posting "...you still did not answer my question about why is israel so dangerous to world peace..."
I actually thought that I answered it sufficiently in my original blog on the Israel/Palestine question! So once again I ask Mr. Anon to read it at http://brenspeedie.blogspot.com/2006/08/europe-must-expose-lie-of-israels.html
It is odd that the Israeli aggressors and their US backers are all the time screening about Iran & the so-called 'Islamic Bomb'.
Of course there should be no further development of nuclear weaponry anywhere in the world. But it is total hypocrisy to talk of the potential Iranian development when these countries refuse to confirm the actual decades-old existence of 'Zionist Bombs' & Israel's large nuclear arsenal.
Finally the Soviets were never a threat to Ireland. So please don't rewrite history
ps. I ask readers to realise that there are many Jews worldwide who are vocal against the occupation of Palestine & many others against the invasion/occupation. For the latter check out http://www.commondreams.org/news2007/0319-02.htm
Actually I should really summarise, for the benefit of Mr. Anonymous, on his query on why so many people worldwide believe "...israel (is) so dangerous to world peace...":
1. Israel in the last 30 years has invaded 4 countries
2. Israel possesses a large & illegal nuclear arsenal
3. Isreal has consistently ignored UN Resolutions
4. Israel has stolen Arab lands and populated them with fundamentalist racist colonists
5. Israel has created a massive Palestinian refugee population in its neighbouring states who it refuses the 'right of return'.
6. Israel operates a Nazi-type 'Iron Fist' policy towards the civilian population in Gaza and the occupied West Bank e.g. bulldozing the family homes of teenage stonethrowers & vandalising houses that its soldiers occupied
7. Israel has created massive ghettoes in Gaza and West Bank by taking military ownership of roads, airways & the natural water supplies, building giant perimeter walls, cutting off people from their farms and places of work & forcing local inhabitants off their lands to make way for Jewish settlements
8. Israel refuses to withdraw from its illegal occupation of the West Bank and Golan Heights as required by UN Resolution 242.
9. Israel is illegally occupying Syrian and Lebanese lands
10. Israel military has for most of the last few decades used civilans as human shields & bomb civilian targets 'ad nauseum'
11. In the last few days of the 2006 Lebanese conflict & when it knew its forces had to withdraw, Israel dropped thousands of cluster bombs in a brutal vindictive & planned strategy of making the area dangerous for civilians for years to come.
12. Israel's secret services for decades undertook kidnappings and assassinations in Europe, Africa and elsewhere
13. Israel is stealing the waters of the Jordan River at the expense of the local Arab population.
These policies of Israel are at the heart of the instability of the Middle East.
Don't know the answer to your question Bill!
Dear Speedie
where did you get your nickname ? surely not by the speedy reply to posts.
The pattern is clear:
1.You post something.
2.I ask you to back it up with facts.
3. You keep my post frozen for days until you think of a response.
4. you post my comment and your cut and paste from a an anti-israeli site.
I asked a simple question:
Where would the palestinian "refugees" return to ?
an answer (preferably with maps or concrete place names) would be nice.
Neither the Germans or Russian posed an immediate threat to Ireland, thank to American and British forces. if you think otherwise - ask any on the Polish/Lithuanian/Estonians in Ireland... Or do you think that the Communists would have accepted Irish neutrality (like they respected other small nations ?)
you said "Israel in the last 30 years has invaded 4 countries"
Which 4 countries did Israel invade since 1977 ?
You know someone is losing an argument when they start to get personal in their insults rather than concentrate on the issues.
So Mr. Anonymous condemns me for not giving speedy replies to his postings thereby making fun of my (nick)name. Actually he may be surprised to know that some of us lead very busy active lives & don't often have the time or the inclination to devote/waste in replying to bias right-wing racist propaganda on the Internet when we could be more people-supportive & productive with our limited time on this planet.
This person who has not the courage of his own convictions to give his name condemns me for "...cutt and paste from an anti-israeli site..." Wrong! - I actually quote from a large number of varied sites, articles, campaigns and individuals/organisations including Christian bishops, progressive Israelis, well-known Zionists, concerned Americans, UN resolutions...
While he quotes from an Israeli state website!
Over and over in my postings, I give facts and figures.
Mr. Anonymous asks "...Where would the palestinian "refugees" return to..."
To their homelands of course!
I will reprint a paragraph from one of my previous postings "...Even if the lands they own have been changed, their homes destroyed, colonial settlements built, - it makes no difference- the refugees have the right of return under international law..."
Many of these Palestinian refugees retain their pre-1948 property deeds often dating from the time of the Ottoman Empire. Of course as with all invaders/colonialists/occupiers, the Israeli state refuses to recognise these deeds of the rights of the dispossessed.
He then asks "...do you think that the Communists would have accepted Irish neutrality (like they respected other small nations ?)..." Even though I campaigned against the totalitarianism of the Soviet Stalinists, nevertheless it is an historical fact that the USSR respected the neutrality of Finland, Sweden, Austria and Yugoslavia that bordered the 'Warsaw Pact' countries.
Modern Ireland's neutrality was more threatened by the actions of the Allies, particularly the British.
Of course, I meant to say in my last posting "...Israel in the last 40 (not 30 sorry!) years has invaded 4 countries
"believes in the war of the aggressor, that ‘might is right’, that colonial violence should win out, that the ‘end justifies the means’ etc. That was/is the language of Nazism, fascism, imperialism, apartheid and colonialism.
"
"people that don't have the courage"
plus references to Israel as "Nazi like " and "Racist" (What does that make of Russia - "hyper nazi" ?)
-- allow me to quote you again:
"You know someone is losing an argument when they start to get personal in their insults rather than concentrate on the issues."
'nuff said.
You show understanding when synagogues are torched, think that Irish neutrality was more important than fighting Nazism & Soviet communism - I'm glad your not on my side ;-)
Somehow your time constraints become a lot looser when the posts are supporting you...
Getting back to the palestinian topic - you keep saying"refugees" (i.e grandchildren of people who fled almost 60 years ago) should be allowed to go back to their homeland. Surely their homeland would be a palestinian state and not the horrible Jewish one ?
p.s - the Soviet union did invade Finland. I'm sure they didn't invade Austria, Sweden and Ireland because of respect to sacred value of Neutrality (NATO had nothing to do with it, honest).
The person who hides behind the mask of anonymity has once again spoken!
In answer to his queries:
1. Yes I would define the Soviet Union as a totalitarian state what I would define as 'Stalinist' or a kind of 'red fascism' (I do not understand his term 'hyper-Nazi' though).
2. 'Threat to Irish neutrality'- see my previous quotes.
3. Mr. Anonymous says "...You show understanding when synagogues are torched..."
Silly comment. If he read my original reference properly (answering his comment on the torching) , he would know that I was referring to the synagogues built and left by the occupying Israeli military & their Zionist colonial settlers after they withdrew from Gaza (but not mind you its borders or airspace). While their soldiers destroyed houses and facilities that might have been useful to the native population they left standing Jewish places of worship in a land where there was was no native Jewish population!!
This was deliberately designed to antagonise locals and facilitate Zionist propaganda when the empty synagogues were burnt.
My previous comment was "...Well nothing could be more provocative to an occupied people than have the religious places of worship of their occupiers among the few buildings left standing after their withdrawal!
No wonder they were torched!!..."
4. Mr Anonymous then says "...Getting back to the palestinian topic - you keep saying"refugees" (i.e grandchildren of people who fled almost 60 years ago) should be allowed to go back to their homeland. Surely their homeland would be a palestinian state and not the horrible Jewish one?..."
It is only a state with a Jewish majority because of Jewish colonisation and ethnic cleansing of the native Arab population..."
I once again ask Mr.Anonymous to re-read my earlier comments, especially where I provide ample evidence from Zionist sources & Jewish historians on the planning & implementation of the strategy to expel the Arabs from their homelands during the 1940s.
As I said so many times, the 'Palestinian refugees' (recognised as such by the UN & most countries) have a right of return under international law.
Dear Speadie
Russia - the soviet union killed more people then the Nazis, had a camp system far larger then the German one, enslaved entire nations - yet you never used the Nazi analogy when referring to it. Even Israel's enemies don't accuse it of commiting such crimes - why use the Nazi analogy ?
If memory serves, Monivea had a thriving protestant population, what happened to it ? what's it like to live in an "ethnicaly cleansed" area ?
Refugees - UN definition of refugee is ""A person who is outside his/her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of persecution because of his/her race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution." - this is not a genetic condition. sons and daughters of refugess are no longer refugees.
In any case - what do you think would be the outcome of millions of arabs coming to Israel, a country who's language they can't speak, values they don't share and which they hate ? hint: Lebanon in the 70-80, Iraq now provide examples.
Is the C of I informed about your views regarding religious buildings of a former occuping power ?
If you think that "colonial violence should not win out" ? are you going to protest the muslim occupation of..., well - every Muslim country (none became Muslim by peaceful means)
Yours
Mitz Petel
Sorry folks for taking so long to reply to this post- heavy work schedule at present
1. Nazi & Zionism similarities
First of all, I am amazed that a Zionist (even an anonymous one) feels that the Nazis were not as bad as the Soviets as he is has done in his last posting. That is one for the books! Considering that it where it not for the Red Army, the European Jewry would have been wiped from the face of the Earth.
Furthermore, the Nazi analogy with Zionism is all to obvious to all fair-minded viewers as I have pointed out in previous postings. But to summarise once again - Zionist & Nazi policies have striking similaries e.g. expansionism, racial colonisation, military 'iron fist' policy, refusal to recognise title deeds of indigenous population, creation of ghettos, building of containment walls, race laws etc.
This comparision is borne out by reviewing quotes from leading Zionists shown in my previous postings as well as comments of Christian leaders that hav visited Palestine & from liberal Jews
2. Children of Palestinian Refugees are Refugees also with 'right of return'.
The United Nations Relief & Works Agency's definition of a refugee also covers the descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948.
3. No Mass Expulsions of Irish Protestants
In spite of Mr. Anonymous' comments, there was no "ethnic cleansing of Protestants from southern Ireland when we got out independance after our war of liberation.
Of course, there was a movement of many Protestants from Ireland to Britain from 1922 onwards. It must be remembered that many of these people were colonists brought in by the military occupation forces who stole the land of the natives. These British landlords occupied vast tracts of lands and behaved cruelly towards the natives who were often kept on as oppressed tenants of the lands that they once owned. Understandably many of theses estates were broken up by the Irish governments, compensation given to the former landlords and the lands returned to the native Irish who were mainly Catholic.
Many other Protestants served as agents to the British Imperial forces as soldiers, adminstrators land agents and tradespeople. Once British rule ended, they left.
But unlike Israel/Palestine in 1948 there was no ethnic cleansing. Many Protestants stayed as farmers and business people. After independence, some of our most prominent nationalist leaders were Protestants including our first President (Douglas Hyde), Constance Markievicz, Sam Maguire, Erskine Childers; our most famous writer of the period (WB Yeats) who became a member of our parliament.
In fact when I was growing up in my home town of Carrickmacross, over 50% of the retail businesses were owned by old established Protestant families.
Furthermore, I have just returned from a wonderful wedding in west Cork of a Proestant friend of my wife's whose family have lived there for hundreds of years.
4. Mr Anonymous says "...Is the C of I informed about your views regarding religious buildings of a former occuping power..."
Actually they are! For I have spent time studying many of these beautiful architectural Churcj of Ireland buildings, am involved in a small way in preserving them particulary those older ones that were once Catholic Churches before they were taken over by British forces. I oftentimes go to Protestant religious services which I enjoy.
5. Mr Anonymous then says "... what do you think would be the outcome of millions of arabs coming to Israel, a country who's language they can't speak..."
Well it is their land after all! Under international law,they have the right of return. The first step in this process is for for all racist Zionist colonists to vacate their West Bank settlements & for the Israeli military to withdraw 'in toto' to the pre-1967 borders.
6. "...every Muslim country (none became Muslim by peaceful means)..."
Actually they did. Most of the today's Middle Eastern (Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan) & North African (Libya, Morrocco etc) countries bordering on the Mediterranean fell to the Arab Muslim armies with little native resistance being encountered. At the time they were part of the Byzantine Empire which over-taxed the native populations
The arabs you refer to as "palestinians" is a canard . It has been set up by jew hating arabs and perpetuated by jew hating people throughout the world. It gives them an excuse to smear jews and paint them as nazis. There is no murder, excpet that of the suicide nuts and nazis amongst the arabs. After all, the UN definition of "refugee" was changed after the 1948 war due to the humiliation of the arab world caused by the 1948 war win by the jews over their persecutors. The definition of a "feguee" includes anyone who lived in Palestine, yes palestine, for two years before the 1948 war.
Most of the arabs who voluntarily left Palestine at the start of the 1948 war were migrant workers from other parts of the arab world. These arabs were barbaricly used by their arab brethren to SMEAR jews and use their history against them . The arab idea of history is whatever they think it is. There is no factual basis for "palestinians", there is no indigenous language, history, costume, nothing to differentiate them from any of the millions of arabs sorrounding little israel.
The posting from 'anonymous' oozes vile racism. Don't you just love it when these racists are too cowardly to reveal their identities & hide behind a cloak of anonymnity?
Anyway, the writer tries to make out that the Arab refugees created by Israeli's ethnic cleansing were recent arrivals to Palestine.
Not so as revealed by the census of 1922 & 1932 carried out by the British in Palestine when the territory was under their control ('mandate'). These population statiistics reveal that Jews formed only 11.14% & 16.19% respectively, the remainder were primarily Arab. The difference between the 2 periods for Jews is due to increased arrivals mainly from Europe facilitiated by the British under the 'Balfour Declaration' of WW1 that was designed to get the American Zionists to use their influence to have the USA enter the war on the side of the Allies.
Most present-day Jews are descended from late 1930s refugees & other arrivals, who were justifably trying to find a safe sanctuary & escape persecution & genocide.
It is worth noting again that Israel refuses to recognise the title deeds of Palestinian Arab from the Ottoman period of property that is located within the boundaries of the state of Israel as created in 1948.
Arabs have lived in Palestine since at least the 5th century BC. In fact Jews, even in the time before Emperor Hadrian's war on them, never constituted its only inhabitants. From the time they invaded it Jews had to share the land with many other peoples.
Finally, for evidence of ethnic cleaning of Palestinian Arabs from their homeland, read my second comment on this post when I quote directly from the 1930s-40s Zionist leaders themselves.
Cheers
Thank you - I'm not sure of the year of these posts, but I wanted to say to the one who wants us to refer to "wikipedia" for a more "balanced view" - Please!! That is a zionist, self-serving endeavor that is written moment by moment by anyone, and it is the most biased and useless piece of "information" I have ever seen. It is pure disinformation. We need to keep shining the light of truth on the zionists, (who are not Semites; the Palestinians are Semites). This is the only way to bring out the truth - all of it.
"...wikipedia" for a more "balanced view" - Please!! That is a zionist, self-serving endeavor that is written moment by moment by anyone, and it is the most biased and useless piece of "information" I have ever seen. It is pure disinformation...."
Well said Mary!
In reply to your query, this article entitled "German Bishops Compare Palestine to Jewish Ghettos of Nazi Europe" was written earlier this year (2007).
Cheers!
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